[ The word "hero" gives Ivan a lot of confusion. There's more to the word that what one normally thinks, but he can never figure out why. Glancing at the flickering lights when Goodman does, Ivan responds, more thoughtful than judging. He doesn't know why the idea of Goodman relying on a gimmick, something that's false, feels wrong. ]

I guess... but it wouldn't be real, and doesn't your band try to be more than what the mainstream music scene wants?

[ Ivan doesn't say "hipster" outright, but he's practically saying "hipster." ]